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	<title>Comments on: Godless in Union Square</title>
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	<link>http://www.wolvesbook.com/2007/05/06/godless-in-union-square/</link>
	<description>A new book by GNN's Stephen Marshall</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 06:19:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: craig</title>
		<link>http://www.wolvesbook.com/2007/05/06/godless-in-union-square/#comment-220</link>
		<dc:creator>craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2007 01:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolvesbook.com/2007/05/06/godless-in-union-square/#comment-220</guid>
		<description>What I've read here fallaciously equates liberalism with pacifism.  The current "anti-war" and anti-globalization movements are mainly conservative.  It's more of a movement that people should mind their own business in their more localized region of the world.   A liberal would feel compelled to do something about the Balkans, Iraq, or Darfur.  I'm not sure if anyone believes that Milosovic or Saddam would have stopped dumping bodies in mass graves if we turned a blind eye, though "liberals" like to speak as if that's the case.
This idea that the Iraq war was for economic gain is baseless.  The oil companies and Saudis, and their allies in government, were against it.  It was done for security, and humanitarian reasons, and of course oil was a concern.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I&#8217;ve read here fallaciously equates liberalism with pacifism.  The current &#8220;anti-war&#8221; and anti-globalization movements are mainly conservative.  It&#8217;s more of a movement that people should mind their own business in their more localized region of the world.   A liberal would feel compelled to do something about the Balkans, Iraq, or Darfur.  I&#8217;m not sure if anyone believes that Milosovic or Saddam would have stopped dumping bodies in mass graves if we turned a blind eye, though &#8220;liberals&#8221; like to speak as if that&#8217;s the case.<br />
This idea that the Iraq war was for economic gain is baseless.  The oil companies and Saudis, and their allies in government, were against it.  It was done for security, and humanitarian reasons, and of course oil was a concern.</p>
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		<title>By: eric</title>
		<link>http://www.wolvesbook.com/2007/05/06/godless-in-union-square/#comment-121</link>
		<dc:creator>eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2007 17:49:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolvesbook.com/2007/05/06/godless-in-union-square/#comment-121</guid>
		<description>excellent to see there is still hope for the existence of the rational human mind!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>excellent to see there is still hope for the existence of the rational human mind!</p>
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		<title>By: Diane</title>
		<link>http://www.wolvesbook.com/2007/05/06/godless-in-union-square/#comment-66</link>
		<dc:creator>Diane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 06:11:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolvesbook.com/2007/05/06/godless-in-union-square/#comment-66</guid>
		<description>Sorry I did not edit my post better before submitting it.  Just wanted to add that the Brits' involvement in creating the country of Irag was around the first twenty years of the 20th century.  Prior to that Iraq was the name for a topographical region, and part of other countries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry I did not edit my post better before submitting it.  Just wanted to add that the Brits&#8217; involvement in creating the country of Irag was around the first twenty years of the 20th century.  Prior to that Iraq was the name for a topographical region, and part of other countries.</p>
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		<title>By: Diane</title>
		<link>http://www.wolvesbook.com/2007/05/06/godless-in-union-square/#comment-65</link>
		<dc:creator>Diane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 06:00:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolvesbook.com/2007/05/06/godless-in-union-square/#comment-65</guid>
		<description>Hi there.  A few years ago, I was an extra in 'This Revolution.'  Never got to see whether or not my 2 seconds wound up on the cutting room floor, as they say, but I came here last night after receiving an email about your book.  At first, I wasn't sure whether or not you were just another one of those intellectual guys that is always angry about something... but your words have gotten my attention.  Not only do you write very well, but you seem to have investigated, poked, and prodded the workings of this country and how we affect other nations.  

I am both intrigued, enough to want to learn more, and also a little confused.  Sometime last year I took some survey on the 'net which tells you if you are left- or right-leaning.  I came out a Centrist.  To tell you the truth, I don't know if that's good or bad.  I'm so tired of labels!  I have often wished for not only a viable third party in this country, but also a fourth, fifth, sixth, and so on.  Why must we align ourselves with a party in teh first place -- can't we judge a political candidate on their own merits?  Aaah, I digress...

I'm afraid that everything you wrote about on this page and in your book will be discussed and argued in college campuses, coffee shops, and maybe in newspapers or on television, but only by the most educated in our society.  I am 47 years old, a life-long Democrat from a blue-collar family, and I have never heard of Christopher Hitchens, Michael Ignatieff and Paul Berman.  I have absolutely no idea who they are.  There is too much to learn!  I'm what they call pink-collar now, and I feel clueless.  

I am attending a community college now and was really surprised to discover that, even in a pretty liberal and diverse urban setting, there is little (if any) political activism on campus.  The only thing the students seem to be upset about is receiving book vouchers as part of their financial aid, instead of money that they can spend any way they like.  Isn't it usually the case that blue-collar, low- and middle-income folk who can't afford to buy the NY Times every day just don't involve themselves in these sorts of analyses or enlightenment?  That they're really only worrying about their next paycheck and not getting sick because they have no insurance?  Strangely, many have also become conservatives.  Attitudes have changed since the credit card companies started giving plastic to poor people, and now even the poorest must wear designer labels or, at the very least, knock-offs.  Must have something to show for all of your debt.  Uh-oh, I digress again.

I am glad you wrote this book and are attempting to make people more aware of what's going on in the world.  However, it saddens me that only a small group of very smart people will read it even less will make an effort themselves to shed light on the subjects in your book and on this page.  Unfortunately, I feel these discussions will likely fall on deaf ears.  

The topics of a backlash and downward spiral were mentioned above.  It upsets me deeply that racism has not gone away in this country.  I see prejudice every day in NYC, from all sides.  The other day I was reading a message board for people looking to relocate.  You can ask questions about various cities throughout the U.S.  I am amazed.  On one thread, someone wrote, "America is definitely a white country. The USA was built up by white people for white people. Are you trying to tell me this isn't the case?" to which the writer received this response: "I hear you.  But its [sic] changing rapidly.  Pretty soon we will be the minority, and then its revenge time!!"

It seems pretty plausible that the US's attempts to make all other countries in the conform to our ideas/ideals of what is better has caused this kind of racist resurgence, and backlash not only from other countries but also from the religious right.  I also feel that England has a lot of answering to do, as their hopes to dominate the world set many wheels in motion, the effectsof which still reverberate.  I recently read a very informative article entitled "Lines in the Sand" by F. S. Naiden, in the Winter 2007 issue of the Wilson Quarterly.  It explains how the Brits planned and orchestrated the etablishment of Iraq and selected whom they wished to rule as leader.  An eye-opener! 

I know I've rambled on a bit.  It's just that the posts here have got me thinking of so many things.  I do not know what to DO about all these political and economic issues, and I feel more powerless than ever before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi there.  A few years ago, I was an extra in &#8216;This Revolution.&#8217;  Never got to see whether or not my 2 seconds wound up on the cutting room floor, as they say, but I came here last night after receiving an email about your book.  At first, I wasn&#8217;t sure whether or not you were just another one of those intellectual guys that is always angry about something&#8230; but your words have gotten my attention.  Not only do you write very well, but you seem to have investigated, poked, and prodded the workings of this country and how we affect other nations.  </p>
<p>I am both intrigued, enough to want to learn more, and also a little confused.  Sometime last year I took some survey on the &#8216;net which tells you if you are left- or right-leaning.  I came out a Centrist.  To tell you the truth, I don&#8217;t know if that&#8217;s good or bad.  I&#8217;m so tired of labels!  I have often wished for not only a viable third party in this country, but also a fourth, fifth, sixth, and so on.  Why must we align ourselves with a party in teh first place &#8212; can&#8217;t we judge a political candidate on their own merits?  Aaah, I digress&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m afraid that everything you wrote about on this page and in your book will be discussed and argued in college campuses, coffee shops, and maybe in newspapers or on television, but only by the most educated in our society.  I am 47 years old, a life-long Democrat from a blue-collar family, and I have never heard of Christopher Hitchens, Michael Ignatieff and Paul Berman.  I have absolutely no idea who they are.  There is too much to learn!  I&#8217;m what they call pink-collar now, and I feel clueless.  </p>
<p>I am attending a community college now and was really surprised to discover that, even in a pretty liberal and diverse urban setting, there is little (if any) political activism on campus.  The only thing the students seem to be upset about is receiving book vouchers as part of their financial aid, instead of money that they can spend any way they like.  Isn&#8217;t it usually the case that blue-collar, low- and middle-income folk who can&#8217;t afford to buy the NY Times every day just don&#8217;t involve themselves in these sorts of analyses or enlightenment?  That they&#8217;re really only worrying about their next paycheck and not getting sick because they have no insurance?  Strangely, many have also become conservatives.  Attitudes have changed since the credit card companies started giving plastic to poor people, and now even the poorest must wear designer labels or, at the very least, knock-offs.  Must have something to show for all of your debt.  Uh-oh, I digress again.</p>
<p>I am glad you wrote this book and are attempting to make people more aware of what&#8217;s going on in the world.  However, it saddens me that only a small group of very smart people will read it even less will make an effort themselves to shed light on the subjects in your book and on this page.  Unfortunately, I feel these discussions will likely fall on deaf ears.  </p>
<p>The topics of a backlash and downward spiral were mentioned above.  It upsets me deeply that racism has not gone away in this country.  I see prejudice every day in NYC, from all sides.  The other day I was reading a message board for people looking to relocate.  You can ask questions about various cities throughout the U.S.  I am amazed.  On one thread, someone wrote, &#8220;America is definitely a white country. The USA was built up by white people for white people. Are you trying to tell me this isn&#8217;t the case?&#8221; to which the writer received this response: &#8220;I hear you.  But its [sic] changing rapidly.  Pretty soon we will be the minority, and then its revenge time!!&#8221;</p>
<p>It seems pretty plausible that the US&#8217;s attempts to make all other countries in the conform to our ideas/ideals of what is better has caused this kind of racist resurgence, and backlash not only from other countries but also from the religious right.  I also feel that England has a lot of answering to do, as their hopes to dominate the world set many wheels in motion, the effectsof which still reverberate.  I recently read a very informative article entitled &#8220;Lines in the Sand&#8221; by F. S. Naiden, in the Winter 2007 issue of the Wilson Quarterly.  It explains how the Brits planned and orchestrated the etablishment of Iraq and selected whom they wished to rule as leader.  An eye-opener! </p>
<p>I know I&#8217;ve rambled on a bit.  It&#8217;s just that the posts here have got me thinking of so many things.  I do not know what to DO about all these political and economic issues, and I feel more powerless than ever before.</p>
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		<title>By: PF AXNICK</title>
		<link>http://www.wolvesbook.com/2007/05/06/godless-in-union-square/#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator>PF AXNICK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2007 16:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolvesbook.com/2007/05/06/godless-in-union-square/#comment-49</guid>
		<description>PLUTOCRACY has only one agenda: that of concentrating wealth for those who already have it. Why else would so many coups/death squads/economic manipulations be initiated by a "democracy" against the average citizens of the world? Generations of children have now grown up under dictators propped-up by US administrations, such that the 'American Dream' is now a sick joke to the rest of the planet, who have seen only the squandering of the hopes of the poor, if not their outright murder. How can anyone be surprised there was and will be a backlash?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PLUTOCRACY has only one agenda: that of concentrating wealth for those who already have it. Why else would so many coups/death squads/economic manipulations be initiated by a &#8220;democracy&#8221; against the average citizens of the world? Generations of children have now grown up under dictators propped-up by US administrations, such that the &#8216;American Dream&#8217; is now a sick joke to the rest of the planet, who have seen only the squandering of the hopes of the poor, if not their outright murder. How can anyone be surprised there was and will be a backlash?!</p>
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		<title>By: troy</title>
		<link>http://www.wolvesbook.com/2007/05/06/godless-in-union-square/#comment-45</link>
		<dc:creator>troy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 22:16:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolvesbook.com/2007/05/06/godless-in-union-square/#comment-45</guid>
		<description>How much is the backlash against the horrific reality, how much is against the lie and how much is a realization of a mistake made?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How much is the backlash against the horrific reality, how much is against the lie and how much is a realization of a mistake made?</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.wolvesbook.com/2007/05/06/godless-in-union-square/#comment-44</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 14:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolvesbook.com/2007/05/06/godless-in-union-square/#comment-44</guid>
		<description>i think the American Dream just appealed to those who had what Peter Whybrow calls the "migrant mentality;" those who were willing to risk it all to get out of countries that had such rigid societal structures... it wasn't always so thought out. they heard there was opportunity for hard working people to get a new start and they came.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think the American Dream just appealed to those who had what Peter Whybrow calls the &#8220;migrant mentality;&#8221; those who were willing to risk it all to get out of countries that had such rigid societal structures&#8230; it wasn&#8217;t always so thought out. they heard there was opportunity for hard working people to get a new start and they came.</p>
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		<title>By: troy</title>
		<link>http://www.wolvesbook.com/2007/05/06/godless-in-union-square/#comment-42</link>
		<dc:creator>troy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 20:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolvesbook.com/2007/05/06/godless-in-union-square/#comment-42</guid>
		<description>I'm curious about the situation of those who bought into the American "Dream".  It is overwhelmingly and obviously individualistic.  It would seem to have required buying into Liberalism in the first place.  Did South Korean farmers of the likes of Kyung Hae Lee ever accept the American concept of 'success' and 'progress'?  Did the promise of working hard and getting the (individual) material rewards appeal to those whose values were communal and bound with the well-being of their neighbours?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m curious about the situation of those who bought into the American &#8220;Dream&#8221;.  It is overwhelmingly and obviously individualistic.  It would seem to have required buying into Liberalism in the first place.  Did South Korean farmers of the likes of Kyung Hae Lee ever accept the American concept of &#8217;success&#8217; and &#8216;progress&#8217;?  Did the promise of working hard and getting the (individual) material rewards appeal to those whose values were communal and bound with the well-being of their neighbours?</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.wolvesbook.com/2007/05/06/godless-in-union-square/#comment-41</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 18:51:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolvesbook.com/2007/05/06/godless-in-union-square/#comment-41</guid>
		<description>They emit power and integrity and everyone else can see that about them. This is how America used to be.

When?

brian, for most of us this sounds like false nostalgia but when i went out into the world, talking to regular people in Karachi, Beirut, Munich, or even Jakarta, there was this sense of wonder and excitement about America and its patented "dream."  we have to remember not everyone has the Zinn/Chomsky analysis.  they take the good with the bad.  but these people are the ones now turning - you may say, "it's about time!" - but my point is that if they are turning it's huge.  and it mirrors the shift of the formerly anti-imperialist war Left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They emit power and integrity and everyone else can see that about them. This is how America used to be.</p>
<p>When?</p>
<p>brian, for most of us this sounds like false nostalgia but when i went out into the world, talking to regular people in Karachi, Beirut, Munich, or even Jakarta, there was this sense of wonder and excitement about America and its patented &#8220;dream.&#8221;  we have to remember not everyone has the Zinn/Chomsky analysis.  they take the good with the bad.  but these people are the ones now turning - you may say, &#8220;it&#8217;s about time!&#8221; - but my point is that if they are turning it&#8217;s huge.  and it mirrors the shift of the formerly anti-imperialist war Left.</p>
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		<title>By: troy</title>
		<link>http://www.wolvesbook.com/2007/05/06/godless-in-union-square/#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>troy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 17:38:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolvesbook.com/2007/05/06/godless-in-union-square/#comment-40</guid>
		<description>Certainly some corporations will be hurt by growing anti-Americanism.  However, others are more than prepared for this and likely would welcome it as they will gain differentially.  It would also bring about a wave of M&#38;As as former giants see their market cap drop and remaining giants sweep in to gobble them up.  

One of my particular interests is the intra-capitalist struggle.  In fact, I see it as the fundamental struggle of the contemporary form of social organization.  As Veblen said at the beginning of the 20th century, the large-scale businessman controls the exigencies of the community.  Their concern is with each other, more so than with us.  In this way, they are little different than the lords of the feudal era who only worried about the peasants when an uprising erupted.  Then, all the lords would come together to ensure the continuity of the status quo.  Within the status quo it is a constant tumult of oneupmanship and differential battles for power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Certainly some corporations will be hurt by growing anti-Americanism.  However, others are more than prepared for this and likely would welcome it as they will gain differentially.  It would also bring about a wave of M&amp;As as former giants see their market cap drop and remaining giants sweep in to gobble them up.  </p>
<p>One of my particular interests is the intra-capitalist struggle.  In fact, I see it as the fundamental struggle of the contemporary form of social organization.  As Veblen said at the beginning of the 20th century, the large-scale businessman controls the exigencies of the community.  Their concern is with each other, more so than with us.  In this way, they are little different than the lords of the feudal era who only worried about the peasants when an uprising erupted.  Then, all the lords would come together to ensure the continuity of the status quo.  Within the status quo it is a constant tumult of oneupmanship and differential battles for power.</p>
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